'We took a conscious risk'

Union Home Minister L.K. Advani, who is at the centre of the controversy regarding the Cabinet recommendation to President K.R. Narayanan on invoking Article 356 in Bihar, is careful in not joining issue with the President. After the Cabinet decided not to send the recommendation to the President for a second time after Narayanan returned the recommendation, Advani has called for a nation-wide debate on Article 356 while insisting that Bihar continues to be a fit case for invoking the constitutional provision. In an interview to V. Venkatesan, he denies that the BJP-led Government's image has suffered a setback as a result of the developments. Excerpts:

Do you agree that the Government has suffered a loss of face on the Bihar issue with the President returning for reconsideration the Cabinet recommendation to invoke Article 356 in the State?

S. SUBRAMANIUM

No. If we wanted, we could have sent the recommendation back to the President. We did not do so because the first time the Government had reaffirmed what it thought was right. But in deference to the President's wishes, we have not pursued the matter.

But does it mean that you will not pursue the matter in the future?

I can't say. Situations keep developing. As far as this particular chapter is concerned, it is closed.

Have you drawn any lessons from this episode?

What lessons? If I were to tell you fully about my discussions with the President before and after he returned the recommendation, it would not be right.

Why did you take the risk of recommending President's Rule in Bihar, knowing full well that you might be faced with strident demands from your allies for similar action in other States? There could have been a real threat to the survival of your Government.

I do not think so. It is a question of assessment. We took a conscious risk. But we weighed the pros and cons. As we felt, first, we owed it to the people of Bihar. Secondly, it is a constitutional duty cast on the Central Government to invoke Article 356 in a situation like the one prevailing in Bihar.

You were ready even to sacrifice the Central Government.

I do not know what would have happened. But we would not abuse any provision of the Constitution just to save our Government.

Has the episode helped you to teach a lesson to your allies who have been demanding Central Rule in other States?

Not at all. That is suggesting that we have had a glimpse into the President's mind.

You are apparently happy about the outcome because your allies have been silenced now.

No. These are side-effects. When the President expressed his gratitude for the Cabinet decision, which was conveyed to him on the phone, he said that it was good for our Government. In the past, governments may have used this provision to strengthen themselves or the party in power (at the Centre). This Government recommended use of Article 356 not to strengthen itself; it was done at its own risk.

Governments of the BJP have been victims of Article 356 in some States in the past. But there has never been a united Opposition stand against the use of this provision as we see now in the case of Bihar. Can you explain this?

Most political parties in the country, apart from the BJP, have been totally against Article 356. Would it not be wiser (for them), would they not be more honest, if they amend Article 356 to stipulate that it should never be used except in the case of BJP governments.

Are you in favour of amending the Article to restrict its use to specific situations?

No. I don't think we need to amend the Article. But there have been proposals in the Inter-State Council that a two-thirds majority in Parliament be made necessary to ratify the imposition of President's Rule. We are in favour of this. In that case we would not have been able to recommend President's Rule in Bihar.

Why has the Government not thought it necessary to convene the Inter-State Council and continue the deliberations on the use of Article 356, which have been inconclusive during the United Front regime?

We will do it.

The confrontation between the Governor and the Chief Minister in Bihar is getting murkier day by day. Is there any move to shift Governor Sunder Singh Bhandari from Bihar?

You cannot have a party ruling a State abuse the Governor in this manner... It is a low-level language that is being used. The Governor has done his duty.

Don't you think the Governor committed impropriety by talking to the media about his report to the President even before the President could see it?

Not at all. He is a quiet man by temperament. It was the media which hurled questions at him and drew some responses.

Some of your allies have been in favour of the deletion of Article 356 from the Constitution.

It is their view. They have every right to hold that view. It is not part of the National Agenda (for Governance) that this Article be repealed. After all, we are committed to the National Agenda. I can conceive of so many situations in different parts of the country, even in the north-eastern States, where Article 356 will be the only constitutional remedy available to the Government to deal with situations such as secession.

Why can't the Constitution be amended to restrict its use only to situations where there is a threat of secession?

Why should we? Constitutional breakdown is a wide enough phrase.

But it is also vague.

No. There are many people who said Bihar is a ripe case.

There could be disagreement on this.

Very little scope.

What in you view constitutes Constitutional breakdown?

Justice K. Ramaswamy has outlined five situations when Constitutional breakdown may justifiably be inferred from in the Bommai judgment. These are: large-scale breakdown of the law and order or public order situation; gross mismanagement of affairs by a State government; corruption or abuse of power; danger to national integration or security; aiding or abetting national disintegration or a claim for independent sovereign status; and subversion of the Constitution while professing to work under the Constitution or creating disunity or disaffection among the people to disintegrate the social fabric. All these situations are prevailing in Bihar.

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